It’s messed up that they don’t allow sex workers. If they’re going to allow Nazis to make money then they should allow sex workers also. Not spammers though. Lol that’s where I draw the line.
How does a Jew get to Heaven from dry humping the Wailing Wall like Miley Cyrus?
Enquiring minds would like to know, so let’s ask Brother Nathaniel:
Jews go to the Wailing Wall and thrust their hips to imitate having intercourse with their “shekinah” (a female demon) while praying to their devil . . . at an old Roman fortress called Antonia . . .
Great initiative, though, let's be real, Substack has LONG had this problem. It hasn't been a secret. Which is why so many have been looking for alternatives (that don't really exist).
It's like pointing out the barn door is open when it's been open ever since the barn was built, I get that. I guess it's been getting harder for me to overlook this.
As I quote here https://innerlifecollaborative.substack.com/p/the-survivor-dilemma: "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out – because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me – and there was no one left to speak for me."
Thanks for this - an essential post. Please count me in for all future efforts to rid Substack of this horror. Add my name - no one who supports the far right or terrorism should be allowed a platform. These are not legitimate positions in any respect. Not at all.
I actually had to ponder this for a while, Mark, which as an ethicist, is unusual. I ended up consulting my wife, who is Jewish American, and this is what she said:
1. That we need to know EXACTLY what these people are up to and thus their views should be made as public as possible.
2. That we should not give up an inch regarding generating sympathy or allowing them to play the victim in any way, which they could do if they are 'cancelled' in various fora.
I myself would add:
3. Their views must be public so that they can be confronted with superior thought and argument, in order to help demonstrate their inadequacy to the facts.
As far as 'hate speech' is concerned, setting boundaries can be difficult in a free society, or one that attempts to be so. This is another issue, perhaps a 4th, wherein if one bans certain voices, one is acting just like the fascists. Consider the following two paragraphs:
1. Leonard Bernstein was a great conductor and musician who dreamed of being a great composer. He knew very well that he was not and hence there was sometimes a trace of bitterness about him, in spite of the oft pure joy he emulated when bringing out the best performances in others. He was not immune to projecting this auto-resentment against others, as in his treatment of Steven Sondheim, for example. He was also a passable music theorist, and his 1973 Norton lectures are certainly worth watching, though I could have done better. The fact that he had a Jewish background certainly helped his ability to network early on; his mentor was none other than Aaron Copland, for instance. But the idea that this was, in his case, a deciding factor, is highly unlikely given his own personal talent.
2. Bernstein is a typical example of a Jew who, in spite of his mediocre pretense at composition was able to get himself a prestigious career and the adoration of millions. The only reason such people are so enabled is because the Jews have a lock on the culture industries, both high and low, and they actively conspire to keep others out of it. The dominant presence of Jews in the arts and entertainment allows them to frame the very questions the rest of us are able to imagine, and decoy our senses away from the fact they run the show, and continue to do so whether or not any of them have any real talent. The fact that some may have some ability is taken as just a better way to hoodwink the rest of us, who are told that we can't participate in cultural affairs because we're inferior in our gifts.
I think most of us would agree that paragraph 2 is quite offensive, and also manipulative of the facts at hand, whereas paragraph 1 simply presents a description and subsequent interpretation of those same facts. Interpretations by their nature are open and debatable. In my example, I would have to go out and prove I could do better than Bernstein at the Norton's - I can't play piano so my lectures would perhaps not be as exciting, at the least - and I would never be invited to do so. I take it that #2 is more of the style of presentation of the persons you named in your letter - I had never heard of any of them - but you can see that setting up boundaries regarding what constitutes 'hatred' is a challenge. I deliberately couched #2 in such language that implied that 'Jews' were by nature manipulators and self-interested, and that they would go to any length to secure the sources of ideas in any culture they had 'joined'. If this is the kind of thing that is being purveyed on SubStack and elsewhere, we absolutely need to hear of it and the sooner the better, so I would suggest that, as noble as your effort was in this case, that it is a mistake and that we need rather to blow it all wide open.
I will be writing a more scholarly piece about another phrase, a notorious one, that you cited in your letter, so I hope readers will look for that later this weekend. - Cheers, Greg
Thanks for your comment Greg but here is the issue within the issue: according to Substack's own rules they should be banning this content and they are not and it seems likely they are deriving revenue from this. So to me it's more of an issue about Substack selectively enforcing its own rules when there are content types that they do ban, like pornography and writings by sex workers. So in this case we don't seem to be in agreement.
Well that certainly puts a different light on it, so I am not disagreeing with you on such a point of mutable policy pertaining to this server. I can only suppose then that money is a variable, though it can't be the only one as erotic writing would also generate cash flow for them as well, one supposes. Ideally one would be consistent in the application of policy. Its beyond me why writings by sex workers, if not themselves pornographic, should be banned.
I should rephrase my general point then and suggest that in cases where there is no third variable, such as profits or some other editorial standard, though one that seems obscure to me here, then we need to be as public as possible with viewpoints that contain dangerous or reckless biases. Thank you for clarifying your intent.
I would feel more comfortable if this server simply served all comers, no matter how vexing, in order to best serve the culture as a whole. We cannot be rid of ignorance unless it is confronted directly and publicly, in the same way that any shadow is dispelled by the brightest lights that can be shone upon it.
Dr. Loewen, I am new here, so forgive me if I am overstepping a bit. I joined Substack because I view it as a haven for artists. As a writer and creative jewelry designer, I am/was excited to find such a community. While I completely agree with your statement that we should confront and reveal bad characters for what they represent, I suggest that this community is not the place to confront and reveal base characters. I would like to see it remain a place where creativity is encouraged and rewarded. If Nazis and the like are allowed to post on this forum and to profit from hatred and bigotry, then this is not a place in which I would feel safe. In addition, I respectfully recommend that, in future, if you quote such posts, you add quotation marks around the quoted text. I found the lack a bit confusing and, no doubt, so will others. Thanks for adding your voice to the conversation. Oh, and yes, I agree—sex workers should not be banned.
I am unsure where I quoted posts or the like, but thank you for pointing this out in principle. As to your request for a safe space, unfortunately, if we sequester such spaces we are avoiding reality and making security into escapism. Indeed, artists above all have never shied away from the confrontation with evils, so I would in turn suggest that you employ your creative genius in this noble effort wherever you may find yourself and your works.
Thank you for your reply. Can we agree to disagree? I choose to “battle” face-to-face. It’s much more satisfying and has the added advantage of facial expression and body language. I still do not think this is the place to encourage pointless (IMO) argumentative discussion with people who have already shown an inability to empathise or think logically and rationally.
Well of course you may be right in practice. As a philosopher I must make statements based upon principles, but for a pragmatist, where only the outcome matters, there may be venues which are more conducive to dialogue than others. But if one is facing off against an irrational person, no venue would presumably suffice, so one is back to square one there; where and how does one confront challenging viewpoints?
This looks like it will be misplaced chronologically vis-a-vis my first response. I would merely like to add that the confrontation with hatred is first of all a confronting of the self with itself. I can also feel hatred, and thus I must ask myself why this is so. There is no escape from this confrontation because it is part of the call of conscience. I admire your courage in actually meeting these others in real life, but most of us will never meet the radically other, and to engage in dialogue pushes one's interlocutor to risk themselves. If by lack of empathy you are suggesting that these others cannot do so, I am suggesting that our job is to help the other get in touch with their fuller humanity, which is certainly also an outcome of the work of art.
I tip my hat to you for this Mark. 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼🙏🏼
Yikes. And thanks!
Add my name! I’m also against known terrorist groups and fundraising for terrorism and violence. Shocking, I know.
It’s messed up that they don’t allow sex workers. If they’re going to allow Nazis to make money then they should allow sex workers also. Not spammers though. Lol that’s where I draw the line.
Interesting point about sex workers!
How does a Jew get to Heaven from dry humping the Wailing Wall like Miley Cyrus?
Enquiring minds would like to know, so let’s ask Brother Nathaniel:
Jews go to the Wailing Wall and thrust their hips to imitate having intercourse with their “shekinah” (a female demon) while praying to their devil . . . at an old Roman fortress called Antonia . . .
https://cwspangle.substack.com/i/138320669/how-does-a-jew-get-to-heaven-from-dry-humping-the-wailing-wall-like-miley-cyrus
Agree wholeheartedly!
Great initiative, though, let's be real, Substack has LONG had this problem. It hasn't been a secret. Which is why so many have been looking for alternatives (that don't really exist).
It's like pointing out the barn door is open when it's been open ever since the barn was built, I get that. I guess it's been getting harder for me to overlook this.
As I quote here https://innerlifecollaborative.substack.com/p/the-survivor-dilemma: "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out – because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me – and there was no one left to speak for me."
If not on Substack, where will any of us find a LAST resort to CIVIL mindedness?
Thanks Mark.
Thanks for this - an essential post. Please count me in for all future efforts to rid Substack of this horror. Add my name - no one who supports the far right or terrorism should be allowed a platform. These are not legitimate positions in any respect. Not at all.
I actually had to ponder this for a while, Mark, which as an ethicist, is unusual. I ended up consulting my wife, who is Jewish American, and this is what she said:
1. That we need to know EXACTLY what these people are up to and thus their views should be made as public as possible.
2. That we should not give up an inch regarding generating sympathy or allowing them to play the victim in any way, which they could do if they are 'cancelled' in various fora.
I myself would add:
3. Their views must be public so that they can be confronted with superior thought and argument, in order to help demonstrate their inadequacy to the facts.
As far as 'hate speech' is concerned, setting boundaries can be difficult in a free society, or one that attempts to be so. This is another issue, perhaps a 4th, wherein if one bans certain voices, one is acting just like the fascists. Consider the following two paragraphs:
1. Leonard Bernstein was a great conductor and musician who dreamed of being a great composer. He knew very well that he was not and hence there was sometimes a trace of bitterness about him, in spite of the oft pure joy he emulated when bringing out the best performances in others. He was not immune to projecting this auto-resentment against others, as in his treatment of Steven Sondheim, for example. He was also a passable music theorist, and his 1973 Norton lectures are certainly worth watching, though I could have done better. The fact that he had a Jewish background certainly helped his ability to network early on; his mentor was none other than Aaron Copland, for instance. But the idea that this was, in his case, a deciding factor, is highly unlikely given his own personal talent.
2. Bernstein is a typical example of a Jew who, in spite of his mediocre pretense at composition was able to get himself a prestigious career and the adoration of millions. The only reason such people are so enabled is because the Jews have a lock on the culture industries, both high and low, and they actively conspire to keep others out of it. The dominant presence of Jews in the arts and entertainment allows them to frame the very questions the rest of us are able to imagine, and decoy our senses away from the fact they run the show, and continue to do so whether or not any of them have any real talent. The fact that some may have some ability is taken as just a better way to hoodwink the rest of us, who are told that we can't participate in cultural affairs because we're inferior in our gifts.
I think most of us would agree that paragraph 2 is quite offensive, and also manipulative of the facts at hand, whereas paragraph 1 simply presents a description and subsequent interpretation of those same facts. Interpretations by their nature are open and debatable. In my example, I would have to go out and prove I could do better than Bernstein at the Norton's - I can't play piano so my lectures would perhaps not be as exciting, at the least - and I would never be invited to do so. I take it that #2 is more of the style of presentation of the persons you named in your letter - I had never heard of any of them - but you can see that setting up boundaries regarding what constitutes 'hatred' is a challenge. I deliberately couched #2 in such language that implied that 'Jews' were by nature manipulators and self-interested, and that they would go to any length to secure the sources of ideas in any culture they had 'joined'. If this is the kind of thing that is being purveyed on SubStack and elsewhere, we absolutely need to hear of it and the sooner the better, so I would suggest that, as noble as your effort was in this case, that it is a mistake and that we need rather to blow it all wide open.
I will be writing a more scholarly piece about another phrase, a notorious one, that you cited in your letter, so I hope readers will look for that later this weekend. - Cheers, Greg
Thanks for your comment Greg but here is the issue within the issue: according to Substack's own rules they should be banning this content and they are not and it seems likely they are deriving revenue from this. So to me it's more of an issue about Substack selectively enforcing its own rules when there are content types that they do ban, like pornography and writings by sex workers. So in this case we don't seem to be in agreement.
Well that certainly puts a different light on it, so I am not disagreeing with you on such a point of mutable policy pertaining to this server. I can only suppose then that money is a variable, though it can't be the only one as erotic writing would also generate cash flow for them as well, one supposes. Ideally one would be consistent in the application of policy. Its beyond me why writings by sex workers, if not themselves pornographic, should be banned.
I should rephrase my general point then and suggest that in cases where there is no third variable, such as profits or some other editorial standard, though one that seems obscure to me here, then we need to be as public as possible with viewpoints that contain dangerous or reckless biases. Thank you for clarifying your intent.
Okay, in response to Mark's mention of a notorious phrase, here is my attempt to move the historical conversation forward.
https://drgvloewen.substack.com/p/is-there-a-jewish-question
I would feel more comfortable if this server simply served all comers, no matter how vexing, in order to best serve the culture as a whole. We cannot be rid of ignorance unless it is confronted directly and publicly, in the same way that any shadow is dispelled by the brightest lights that can be shone upon it.
Dr. Loewen, I am new here, so forgive me if I am overstepping a bit. I joined Substack because I view it as a haven for artists. As a writer and creative jewelry designer, I am/was excited to find such a community. While I completely agree with your statement that we should confront and reveal bad characters for what they represent, I suggest that this community is not the place to confront and reveal base characters. I would like to see it remain a place where creativity is encouraged and rewarded. If Nazis and the like are allowed to post on this forum and to profit from hatred and bigotry, then this is not a place in which I would feel safe. In addition, I respectfully recommend that, in future, if you quote such posts, you add quotation marks around the quoted text. I found the lack a bit confusing and, no doubt, so will others. Thanks for adding your voice to the conversation. Oh, and yes, I agree—sex workers should not be banned.
I am unsure where I quoted posts or the like, but thank you for pointing this out in principle. As to your request for a safe space, unfortunately, if we sequester such spaces we are avoiding reality and making security into escapism. Indeed, artists above all have never shied away from the confrontation with evils, so I would in turn suggest that you employ your creative genius in this noble effort wherever you may find yourself and your works.
Thank you for your reply. Can we agree to disagree? I choose to “battle” face-to-face. It’s much more satisfying and has the added advantage of facial expression and body language. I still do not think this is the place to encourage pointless (IMO) argumentative discussion with people who have already shown an inability to empathise or think logically and rationally.
Well of course you may be right in practice. As a philosopher I must make statements based upon principles, but for a pragmatist, where only the outcome matters, there may be venues which are more conducive to dialogue than others. But if one is facing off against an irrational person, no venue would presumably suffice, so one is back to square one there; where and how does one confront challenging viewpoints?
This looks like it will be misplaced chronologically vis-a-vis my first response. I would merely like to add that the confrontation with hatred is first of all a confronting of the self with itself. I can also feel hatred, and thus I must ask myself why this is so. There is no escape from this confrontation because it is part of the call of conscience. I admire your courage in actually meeting these others in real life, but most of us will never meet the radically other, and to engage in dialogue pushes one's interlocutor to risk themselves. If by lack of empathy you are suggesting that these others cannot do so, I am suggesting that our job is to help the other get in touch with their fuller humanity, which is certainly also an outcome of the work of art.
Damn. And I just shifted over to substack thinking it was a haven for intellectuals, not Nazi simpletons.
Time will.tell.