I find the inconsistency in the adjectival forms of some of those words in British English rather curious.
‘Flavour’ becomes ‘flavourful’, and ‘colour’ becomes ‘colourful’. So I’ve always wondered why - also in British English - ‘humour’ becomes ‘humorous’ and ‘glamour’ becomes ‘glamorous’. 🤔
Thanks Rebecca. Never thought about the inconsistency of suffixes before, I just take them for granted. Bill Bryson wrote an interesting book about the English language (I forget the title now) and the origins of some of its words are very, very strange.
I'm actually in the midst of writing a rather long piece on "glamour," and I've noticed (and internally debated) my spellings. "Glamour" feels right; "glamorous" feels right. A reader has taken aim at my "French-ified" spelling of glamour, and urged that I drop the "u." But why!?
So, for me, it's an inconsistency that I embrace. I might even defend it.
Another ‘u’ within the body of the word would certainly be superfluous, wouldn’t it?
Let’s see with a non-existent word - if the adjective for ‘flavour’ had the -ous suffix rather than -ful or -some, we’d probably automatically plump for dropping that first 'u', don’t you think? Flavourous or flavorous? Actually, to my horror, I think I prefer the former in this case! Oh cripes…
*bangs head against nearest wall*
(edited for dodgy explanation - I blame the sudden headache 🤣)
Virginia Postrell wrote a book about /The Power of Glamour/, and last night I ran across this sentence in its early pages: "/Glamour./ The word itself has mystique, spelled even in American English with that exotic /u/." Perhaps the word itself seeks that sparkle of glamour.
I think it's because of the various Roman, Greek, French, whatever influences on the language. Some of the rules in English follow the rules of those older languages, leading to inconsistency in English, but conformity to older rules in other languages. Part of the enlightenment and the standardization of language maybe?
Interesting that you went the American way - I swung harrrrrrd the other way and am resolutely Canadian in my spellings and formats. Definitely parent-influenced (my dad wasn’t going to have any kids writing like Americans, I tell you), but something I made a decision about long ago to resist attempts to Americanize my speech and writing.
An interesting article, Mark which resonated with me as a born and bred Brit still living here in lil ol’ England. I totally got the spellings and date formats (which frazzle my brain!) A very entertaining read. Thank you 🙏
It just occurred to me that the villain of 'Black Panther: Wakanda Forever' should technically be "Namour" when it hits Britain, which makes him sound like a lovable French lothario and not a homicidal Atlantan king.
Anyway. Excellent post, this. And regarding Brit/UK spellings, I should be defending my country here (with lip-curling threats, gunboats etc.) but as I understand it, the King's English is a mess at its roots. Take the metal aluminium, which in the US is called "aluminum". You know who also said "aluminum"? Sir Humphrey Davy, the British chemist who discovered it. So who knows why the hell it acquired that extra "i" and why we clung onto it. Probably something about "tradition" - which is a word we use for things we can't defend using logic or basic common sense.
Mark, I had this date problem with my recent guest post by the poet. His son sent me the date of his death in British fashion and I had to correct twice before I got it right and he finally sent it to me written out in words. Who knew? Not me, anyway. Here's a link to this lovely guest post (see ending for the memoriam and correct date, finally: https://marytabor.substack.com/p/poetry-and-literature
Even as a US American (loathe how clunky this sounds but just American can come off as arrogant) I have trouble remembering which date format to use, since I can remember the US one is considered weird but I can't remember which one that is. Brought this up to someone after reading your article and they made me realize I can just say a date, since the US format of month/day/year is what I default to when speaking about a date.
For some reason I also missed the color/colour thing being a universal rule (thought it was only color and another word with the extra u) until what must be about a month ago now, when I was reading a friend's writing and commented on what I thought was a typo and was corrected. I've been reading their stuff for years now, don't know how it only just came up.
I’ve seen a few writers (whose names I can’t think of at the moment. Silly brain) write with the British and American styles and I have on occasion mispronounced words in my head or out loud.
Loved this post, Mark! Since my academic work is about the UK (and I'm American), I'm painfully familiar with this. Whenever I publish with a UK press, I have to do a search for all of those words and "ise"/"ize" endings. As frustrating as it can be, I'm fascinated by how historical politics and wars are fossilized in our language.
The ise/ize difference is not something I've really picked up before even though I do have British colleagues, but that's something that didn't really make its way into my conscious thinking. I use Z in those situations. Re: your final comment, a language is almost a kind of living history I suppose.
Living near Detroit in Michigan, and having a close connection with Windsor, I was always surprised that more culture was not shared across the two immediate borders. In many jobs, I've worked with Canadians that traveled across the bridge every day for work in the US. I've traveled to Canada several times as well, and other than our accents, there didn't seem to be a unique cultural experience that we could share or blend with one another. Especially near Detroit, it was more about "competing for dollars". Casinos, Tim Hortons, marijuana dispensaries, etc. -- sort of a spread of commerce instead of ideals.
The most foreign aspect in close proximity was that milk came in a bag in Canada, and our apparent accents. I remember vacationing with a friend in Canada. A girl we befriended said we had accents and that we talked too fast and strung words together. I was floored.
I think there's a lot of pragmatism on both sides of the Canada/US border when it comes to commerce, although there's usually some griping about both sides about the impact of the Canadian dollar, etc. Accents, though... you'll find that there are accent differences within Atlantic Canada as well as between provinces, probably no different than any other country or region, just thinking of all of the different regional accents in the UK as well. My family doesn't really do milk in a bag although it's popular in places.
Great read, Mark! As a linguist, of sorts, I've noticed all that, but it was cool to have someone else do the digging and deep dive into it all! I really enjoyed the comic book peek between the two countries! Who knew?
And, that was a cool example! Back in the '60s, when my year-older brother was all about the 'Mans (Bat-, Super-, Aqua-, et al), I was satisfied with the sophomoric set: Archie, Little Lotta, Li'l Devil, Little Audrey....basically, all the "Little"s! Glad you found an example that didn't cause a gaggle o' giggles!😁
A brilliant post!
I find the inconsistency in the adjectival forms of some of those words in British English rather curious.
‘Flavour’ becomes ‘flavourful’, and ‘colour’ becomes ‘colourful’. So I’ve always wondered why - also in British English - ‘humour’ becomes ‘humorous’ and ‘glamour’ becomes ‘glamorous’. 🤔
Thanks Rebecca. Never thought about the inconsistency of suffixes before, I just take them for granted. Bill Bryson wrote an interesting book about the English language (I forget the title now) and the origins of some of its words are very, very strange.
"Mother Tongue," I think. Such a great book!
This is an excellent post, I agree!
I'm actually in the midst of writing a rather long piece on "glamour," and I've noticed (and internally debated) my spellings. "Glamour" feels right; "glamorous" feels right. A reader has taken aim at my "French-ified" spelling of glamour, and urged that I drop the "u." But why!?
So, for me, it's an inconsistency that I embrace. I might even defend it.
Another ‘u’ within the body of the word would certainly be superfluous, wouldn’t it?
Let’s see with a non-existent word - if the adjective for ‘flavour’ had the -ous suffix rather than -ful or -some, we’d probably automatically plump for dropping that first 'u', don’t you think? Flavourous or flavorous? Actually, to my horror, I think I prefer the former in this case! Oh cripes…
*bangs head against nearest wall*
(edited for dodgy explanation - I blame the sudden headache 🤣)
Virginia Postrell wrote a book about /The Power of Glamour/, and last night I ran across this sentence in its early pages: "/Glamour./ The word itself has mystique, spelled even in American English with that exotic /u/." Perhaps the word itself seeks that sparkle of glamour.
I think it's because of the various Roman, Greek, French, whatever influences on the language. Some of the rules in English follow the rules of those older languages, leading to inconsistency in English, but conformity to older rules in other languages. Part of the enlightenment and the standardization of language maybe?
Interesting that you went the American way - I swung harrrrrrd the other way and am resolutely Canadian in my spellings and formats. Definitely parent-influenced (my dad wasn’t going to have any kids writing like Americans, I tell you), but something I made a decision about long ago to resist attempts to Americanize my speech and writing.
I, too, am the same way. But that’s also not surprising given my British family influences 😅
This fits perfectly with my observations.
I use YYYYMMDD exclusively for the self-sorting functionality. 😎
Yes, completely logical choice.
An interesting article, Mark which resonated with me as a born and bred Brit still living here in lil ol’ England. I totally got the spellings and date formats (which frazzle my brain!) A very entertaining read. Thank you 🙏
Thanks for your comment Rosy!
It just occurred to me that the villain of 'Black Panther: Wakanda Forever' should technically be "Namour" when it hits Britain, which makes him sound like a lovable French lothario and not a homicidal Atlantan king.
Anyway. Excellent post, this. And regarding Brit/UK spellings, I should be defending my country here (with lip-curling threats, gunboats etc.) but as I understand it, the King's English is a mess at its roots. Take the metal aluminium, which in the US is called "aluminum". You know who also said "aluminum"? Sir Humphrey Davy, the British chemist who discovered it. So who knows why the hell it acquired that extra "i" and why we clung onto it. Probably something about "tradition" - which is a word we use for things we can't defend using logic or basic common sense.
ps. The new show from the makers of Dark? A new trailer just landed today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7OUQ9U2qIw
Your comments are also filled with great info!
One word: Houlton.
Seems to be a common reaction.
Mark, I had this date problem with my recent guest post by the poet. His son sent me the date of his death in British fashion and I had to correct twice before I got it right and he finally sent it to me written out in words. Who knew? Not me, anyway. Here's a link to this lovely guest post (see ending for the memoriam and correct date, finally: https://marytabor.substack.com/p/poetry-and-literature
Even as a US American (loathe how clunky this sounds but just American can come off as arrogant) I have trouble remembering which date format to use, since I can remember the US one is considered weird but I can't remember which one that is. Brought this up to someone after reading your article and they made me realize I can just say a date, since the US format of month/day/year is what I default to when speaking about a date.
For some reason I also missed the color/colour thing being a universal rule (thought it was only color and another word with the extra u) until what must be about a month ago now, when I was reading a friend's writing and commented on what I thought was a typo and was corrected. I've been reading their stuff for years now, don't know how it only just came up.
I’ve seen a few writers (whose names I can’t think of at the moment. Silly brain) write with the British and American styles and I have on occasion mispronounced words in my head or out loud.
Wonderful read, Mark!
Thanks Crush! Language is always tricky!
Loved this post, Mark! Since my academic work is about the UK (and I'm American), I'm painfully familiar with this. Whenever I publish with a UK press, I have to do a search for all of those words and "ise"/"ize" endings. As frustrating as it can be, I'm fascinated by how historical politics and wars are fossilized in our language.
The ise/ize difference is not something I've really picked up before even though I do have British colleagues, but that's something that didn't really make its way into my conscious thinking. I use Z in those situations. Re: your final comment, a language is almost a kind of living history I suppose.
Living near Detroit in Michigan, and having a close connection with Windsor, I was always surprised that more culture was not shared across the two immediate borders. In many jobs, I've worked with Canadians that traveled across the bridge every day for work in the US. I've traveled to Canada several times as well, and other than our accents, there didn't seem to be a unique cultural experience that we could share or blend with one another. Especially near Detroit, it was more about "competing for dollars". Casinos, Tim Hortons, marijuana dispensaries, etc. -- sort of a spread of commerce instead of ideals.
The most foreign aspect in close proximity was that milk came in a bag in Canada, and our apparent accents. I remember vacationing with a friend in Canada. A girl we befriended said we had accents and that we talked too fast and strung words together. I was floored.
I think there's a lot of pragmatism on both sides of the Canada/US border when it comes to commerce, although there's usually some griping about both sides about the impact of the Canadian dollar, etc. Accents, though... you'll find that there are accent differences within Atlantic Canada as well as between provinces, probably no different than any other country or region, just thinking of all of the different regional accents in the UK as well. My family doesn't really do milk in a bag although it's popular in places.
Great read, Mark! As a linguist, of sorts, I've noticed all that, but it was cool to have someone else do the digging and deep dive into it all! I really enjoyed the comic book peek between the two countries! Who knew?
I'm just happy I found a comic book cover that helped to illustrate my point!
And, that was a cool example! Back in the '60s, when my year-older brother was all about the 'Mans (Bat-, Super-, Aqua-, et al), I was satisfied with the sophomoric set: Archie, Little Lotta, Li'l Devil, Little Audrey....basically, all the "Little"s! Glad you found an example that didn't cause a gaggle o' giggles!😁
My super power, then, is to find fitting examples of the point I want to make!
Canadian cover price variants- the original (and most boring) variant covers?
Ayuh
It would be a good idea if the world could get together and standardize autombile dahsboards too. Maybe in 3000?
Hoo boy.
That was a very curious read Mark!
I trust that's a good thing?
Absolutely!
I always use the yyyymmdd format in order to (a) avoid confusion and (b) to make it easy to sort data by date in a spreadsheet.